lj_abuse didn't work out - request tracking number is 470552 [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
lj_abuse didn't work out

[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

request tracking number is 470552 [Jun. 16th, 2005|08:52 pm]
Previous Entry Share Next Entry

abuse_lj_abuse

[yanis]
Dear Abuse Team, I'm sure this is one of at least a hundred or so messages on the subject. Something clearly isn't working in the way AT is enforcing and interpreting TOS and this hurts a very specific community.

First of, I as you see I have been a paid member for years. I have also paid for a dosen or so accounts as a proxy or as gifts to friends. The total sums paid would be in the hundreds of dollars. I love LJ and appreciate its contribution to the society.

The immediate problem I'm writing about is that, you suspended tens of long time LJ users each with huge following (tiphareth, krylov) and countless others for their creative expression which does not constitute calls to violence. I can produce a notarized translation of the entry in tiphareth's LJ, you claim to be in violation of TOS. It is not! There are no calls to violence against individuals there.

Over the past three years a unique community has formed. LJ being a US based company provided a unique platform to scores of alternative russian publicists, philosophers, writers and politicians. LJ has been a place where russian security services couldn't interfere.
Hundreds of people joined and LJ has volens-nolens become a the biggest un-censored marketplace of ideas in the modern Russian political and cultural landscape. LJ in Russia is quoted in mass media. Most political observers, journalists, young politicians, businessmen have accounts (the list of russian celebrities in LJ is a virtual who's who in modern russian politology, hi-tech business, journalism, TV and entertainment).

So, your company is de-facto hosting something very important for democracy and free speech in Russia. It's the hub, if you will for all kinds of radicals, moderates, right, left, nationalists, internationalists, lesbians, veterans, fascists and anti-fascists. This is all priceless to all people of any Russia-related background and not only them.

That's why blanket mechanical applications of TOS to some users for radical or not so statements in their postings is threatening not only a couple of LJ accounts (not a big deal) but Free Speech in Russia. You push them out of here and many of them will have nowhere turn to congregate, debate and create.


You are ruining our community. You may very well be legally empowered to do so. Just try to think what is it that you're doing and for what reason.


Please, escalate it to your management and try to find a reasonable way of enforcement.

If you keep destroying the fabric of our community by crude and thoughtless application of TOS I will stop my paid membership along with hundreds or thousands of others.

I will also make sure to advertise what a great thing has LJ unintentionally created, and intentially destroyed, and what a disservice it all turned out to be to so many people in so many countries.

Respectfully,
Andrey Yanpolsky
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: finestdrops
2005-06-17 01:07 am (UTC)

(Link)

IN SOVIET RUSSIA LJ ABUSES YOU!
[User Picture]From: killhamster
2005-06-17 01:10 am (UTC)

(Link)

[User Picture]From: conversations
2005-06-17 01:16 am (UTC)

(Link)

I love how people think their posts are actually going to be taken seriously.
[User Picture]From: yanis
2005-06-17 04:09 am (UTC)

(Link)

oh i doubt it will be taked seriously, which is quite sad, but i did it anyway.
[User Picture]From: hep
2005-06-17 02:15 am (UTC)

(Link)

Christ can all of you stupid rich american entitlement brats shut up for once? This goes to the troll brigade thinking that at this late stage in the lj troll game these antics constitute anything even remotely approaching "funny" or "original". Sing a new tune, this song is played kids.
[User Picture]From: hardvice
2005-06-17 02:36 am (UTC)

(Link)

Countdown until 300 Russians begin posting "agree": 3...2...1
[User Picture]From: subbes
2005-06-17 03:58 am (UTC)

(Link)

Your paid account is a very small drop in the ocean of LJ's money, so mentioning it is unlikely to get anything done beyond making people think that you somehow feel entitled to special treatment.


On the other hand, there's been some issues in the past on the "dramatic hyperbole" versus "physical threats" axis (in terms of what counts as hyperbole and what counts as an actual threat); I believe back in the formative days of this community, elgorgo had some posts about it -- possibly it was even before this community and they were in his personal LJ. Either way, the violent threats issue seems to have a measure of the eye of the beholder.

I'd appreciate your posting more information on what the supposed threats were -- because I'm a curious rubbernecker.
[User Picture]From: yanis
2005-06-17 04:07 am (UTC)

(Link)

there was a pretty lame (I have to admit action) "kill NATO" among the russian clique. The guy (incidentally a math Ph.D. from Harvard) who's also a very well known russian blogger, political activist and counterculture icon of sorts, said in his lj "kill NATO". Some others (the herd) went further and started posting "kill a NATO *soldier*" in their journals.
So technically, he says, there's no direct call to violence against persons in his statement (which is correct) .. yet they've suspended him
[User Picture]From: gillen
2005-06-17 04:51 am (UTC)

(Link)

Hell, I'm an American and even I support that. ;)
[User Picture]From: subbes
2005-06-18 01:02 am (UTC)

(Link)

Russian humour is strange.
[User Picture]From: ammateur
2005-06-18 02:30 pm (UTC)

(Link)

:) hehe
[User Picture]From: hojja_nusreddin
2005-06-18 03:59 am (UTC)

(Link)

this is lie, he posted the poster with a dead Russian woman and a Russian baby asking "Daddy, kill a nazi", made durung the WW2.
He changed baby's words, though: "Daddy, kill the NATO soldier"
He aslo wrote there: "Squash America as a piece of shit"
He also wrote there that he is making a deliberate provocation to test the AT tolerance, and he instigated his followers to copy the poster.
That is a part of the anti-American hysteria that is government supported and instigated in the Russian media.
This was also supported by the mob of Russian nazis.
I think that AT was absolutely correct and within the limits of the TOS, law and common sence.
[User Picture]From: yanis
2005-06-18 08:49 am (UTC)

(Link)

good. you are obviously a liar, an idiot and a rat. your opinion is uncalled for, your further comments will be deleted. thank you, have a great day
From: schwarzer_tod
2005-06-20 03:49 am (UTC)

Deleting comments, huh?

(Link)

Yay for free speech! God bless America!

P.S. Yanni is the plural of Yanno, you can't double-pluralise it.
[User Picture]From: telo
2005-06-21 12:40 am (UTC)

(Link)

SURE!!! He is definitely a liar and you are most emphatically not. And in addition you seem to perfectly emblematize the most tolerant attitude towards other person's views of the situation. And it appears you are very smart, too. Nice try, pal..
From: (Anonymous)
2005-06-21 05:05 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I can read russian. Guy is saying the truth. Just admit this.
From: repressii
2005-06-18 11:34 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Actually it was an entry in support of someone
who was suspended for "Kill NATO soldier" (or something -
I never saw the real thing). His friends called for a
defense action, and wrote "kill NATO" or "NATO
soldier" in support, and I joined in hope he gets restored.
Basically it was a free speech demonstration - the
post was about LJ Abuse misusing their power.

Best
Misha
[User Picture]From: telo
2005-06-21 12:20 am (UTC)

(Link)

ride on.
[User Picture]From: hojja_nusreddin
2005-06-18 04:12 am (UTC)

(Link)

if you understand Russian, I recommend you to read this:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/hojja_nusreddin/524727.html

This mob is planning to overwhelm the short staffed AT, and the LJ management team with the avalanche of staged "protest campaign" with false information from faked "Russian media posts". Somewhat similar to econazi/ feminazi/ antiglobalization mob style smear campaign.
So, alert you lawyers and management.
The campaign will be vicious, but very short, less then a week.
If you need more details, I'll provide.
[User Picture]From: wingles
2005-07-05 12:35 pm (UTC)

(Link)

So they're planning to overthrow the lj management? What would that achieve? Apart from having their accounts deleted eventually. To my knowledge, lj isn't an important political forum, even though politics are often discussed.
[User Picture]From: hojja_nusreddin
2005-07-05 01:54 pm (UTC)

(Link)

> So they're planning to overthrow the lj management?

I didn't write that. I wrote "overwhelm".
Different words have different meanings, u know. :)
Also, Russian LJ segment is politicized, IMHO.
[User Picture]From: wingles
2005-07-06 04:58 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I realize the difference in meaning. I was sort of extrapolizing on what you said, making the assumption that maybe after they have the lj staff overwhelmed they'd take control of the service somehow. In your post in this community you say they are aiming to have a mafia sort of grip on lj. If they think they're powerful and witty enough to do that, wouldn't they be able to create their own journal service with a little extra effort? Then they could support russian notions of high art and make fun of americans, and not get kicked out for it. I'm having a hard time understanding what's the motivation behind the campaign.

I didn't know there was a Russian segment to lj :). Or are you just referring to the people using lj who are russian? Could I say I'm part of the Finnish lj segment, even though most of the journals I read are in english?
[User Picture]From: hojja_nusreddin
2005-07-06 05:08 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I don't want to comment in this post. It's author removed several comments.
From: repressii
2005-06-18 11:50 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I think most people were suspended
for "Kill NATO" stuff, either that or
"Kill a NATO soldier".

I don't think either one is an encouragement
to make violence to anybody, assuming that
none of Iraqi terrorists reads Livejournal
in Russian.

The second is a political statement,
of extreme nature of course.
And I don't see anything objectionable
with "kill NATO" at all.

Best
Misha
[User Picture]From: rly
2005-06-17 04:29 am (UTC)

(Link)

oh andrey-chan -_-;;
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: oh_the_ironing
2005-06-17 02:24 pm (UTC)

(Link)

IAWTC
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: oh_the_ironing
2005-06-17 03:16 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Totally.
From: schwarzer_tod
2005-06-17 03:41 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Xa Xa Xa.
From: darkanansi
2005-06-18 12:55 am (UTC)

(Link)

Posts must be in english, as stated in the communuity rules.

All non-english posts will be deleted
From: schwarzer_tod
2005-06-17 03:41 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Ju lutem, flisni shqip!

Just kidding.
How do they know what you're saying when you write in Russian? Do they rely on the word of whomever reports you?
[User Picture]From: killhamster
2005-06-17 03:55 pm (UTC)

(Link)

LJ has a couple staffers who can read some russian. they're used only to suspend half of russia's livejournals.
From: schwarzer_tod
2005-06-21 10:10 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Hey, out of curiosity, what languages does the abuse team speak? Just English Russian and Spanish? And what would they do if, for instance, two Malaysians were quarreling?
From: darkanansi
2005-06-18 01:00 am (UTC)

(Link)

I'm wondering if you realise that this community is not directly related to the LJ Abuse team, nor is it moderated or owned by anyone directly associated with Livejournal staff.
[User Picture]From: yanis
2005-06-18 01:41 am (UTC)

(Link)

i realize that. this is a copy of what I wrote to them, to be sure they haven't responded at all. what i was told by the people who asked that this be cross-posted to abuse_lj_abuse, that some decision makers may be reading this community.
i am not trying to over-dramatize anything. if it doesn't work - fuck it, nobody's gonna die. it would be nice if the right thing were done though.
From: darkanansi
2005-06-18 01:52 am (UTC)

(Link)

It was unclear from your original post that this was a copy of correspondence already sent. We do, on occasion, get read by some of the decision makers. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting, mind
[User Picture]From: hojja_nusreddin
2005-06-18 04:02 am (UTC)

(Link)

your deliberate lie was exposed, and I hope the reaction to it will be adequate